Cadhinorian paganism, icëlani

Posted by Glenn Kempf on 19:05 5/9/02

In reply to: (none)

Tenao otre cuesî, ac eseyretu cuesan cam im soan Sfahen.

1. Chil Cadhin tësadhátise adhnáe parete nusse sulán adhán iy adhan--Enäronán, Ishiran, Calton, et deshai. Esce clidhî chechel comshaynece nusse shofen adhán, rho fäsec telem? (Ashcelao dy sul clidhu im aldean iy oraín e clidhu tëseë adhië.)

Esli tal, kio eto antau perarhië? Esce tëse perarhî eu clidhî Enäronei (com zhusî daluyii zhanátei, kaë lachu esan Enäroniloi--tal mizu perarhî), ca epu esan nussî telein adhin, iy ca mevu com clidhuin tëseë adhië nochula? Esce soî desî adhnáî tene räni?

2. So etadel soei icëlanië mis dy ca mancu dascom imutorani, ac Carhinnoi delazhcu shuchî de can (Pleshurisë pazhakora, ZE 1989). Eto shuchî fueu imutoranî? Soe icëlanî eu etapërece bericél; ta shrifom tal rho bolë eta ca...

Esli le epmei, urave advechenei; cuesai dhiloresa and malán shriftan soe Sfahei. Dëkuy!

Ad onlelán,
Glenn Icovei Cempf

Im englashán:

I have more questions, but I will try to ask them in Verdurian.

1. Each Cadhinorian pagan temple seems to be dedicated to a single god or goddess--Enäron, Ishira, Calto, etc. Are the priests there likewise dedicated to a primary deity, without abandoning the others? (I assume that a lone priest in a village or on an estate is a priest of all the gods.)

If so, what about the system of patriarchs? Are all patriarchs priests of Enäron (like the members of the royal family, who should be worshipers of Enäron, according to the patriarchs), can they be dedicated to other gods, or do they act as priests of all the gods together? Do the various temples or gods have ranks? [i.e., how does the hierarchy work between gods? You've already talked about the geographical layout, in which each patriarch administers the temples in his (her?) territory.]

2. The description of the icëlani states that they lack domestic animals, but the Carhinnoi received pigs from them (Historical Atlas, ZE 1989). Were these pigs domesticated? The icëlani, in general, are a mystery; we know so little about them...

[The deeper question here is simply this: what kind of technology do the icëlani in fact have? After all, even skills such as stone-chipping, hide-scraping, and simple weaving can go a long way, and lack of technology does not preclude a rich culture and even art, although only if their cognitive abilities permit it. In addition, I assume that the icëlani of the tundra west of Luduyn have are at least able to protect themselves against the elements--I am reminded of the Fuegian Islanders, who, as I recall, had fires as protection, but not much else (although we don't even know if the icëlani have fire).]

Please answer if you can; I ask forgiveness for my poor knowledge of Verdurian. Thanks!

Take care,
Glenn Kempf


1. I turned the nouns tësadhát ("pagan") and pleshura ("history") into the adjectives tësadhátise and pleshurise, following the examples belacát --> belacatise, oräna --> oränise. An alternative for the former might have been to use the genetive: adhnáe Cadhinei tësadhátei. I don't know whether a Verdurian would in fact use either expression in reality (so to speak...).

2. Can the verb paretir be used as in the English "seems [to be] (something)", as it is here?

3. I continued the use of the dative in the second sentence with the names of the gods, since I assumed that they would match the original construction--is this correct?

4. Is eto used with both singular and plural, or is there a plural form for "these"? I only saw the one form in the language section, although if there is another form, I'm sure it's around somewhere...

5. The phrase "I ask forgiveness for" (cuesai dhiloresa and) replaced "I apologize for", since I was less certain how the latter would work.

6. My dad's first name is James, although everyone calls him by his middle name, Vern (Vernei?); I ignored both his middle name and mine, Daniel (Dhanël, Deánël).

Mark responds:

Very well done for a first posting in Verdurian, and on a difficult topic too. No one seems to want to just say "Emai, et nomai Glenn, kiel läde?" :)

Watch out for adjective agreement-- e.g. you want to say otrî cuesî, cadhina adhnáe. This should be easy after Russian, nyet...?

I might as well answer the language questions first:

1. Your words are fine. A Verdurian might not use a modifier at all: cadhina adhnáe is already ambiguous, since Eledhe churches are called adhetonî. (Irrean temples are adhnáî but they wouldn't be called cadhinî.)

2. Yes, paretir is fine here... not nusse though. :) It means 'dedicated' in the sense of 'determined, tenacious'. In a religious context you want imrhemul 'consecrated', but I should really add a secular equivalent.

3. Yes, good instincts.

4. You use eto for both singular and plural.

5. Simplest would be Pyeru rhoechomulát esë 'I'm sorry for (lit., I regret) my ignorance'; or Mizao pyera esë pro...

As for the Almealogical questions:

1. A perarh is the nominal head of the cult of Enäron in his region. But this mostly protocol, a nod to the order of things. More practically, he is the head of the cletana or seminary, and derives much of his influence from the fact that the priests of all the major temples, at the least, have passed through the seminary.

In ancient times he had a good deal more power: the central hierarchy appointed temple priests and could reassign and discipline them. Theoretically he still can, but in practice a large temple largely governs itself, and is responsible for smaller temples of the same god(s). The patriarch will usually intervene only in cases of egregious wrongdoing.

Seminary lasts four years, and largely teaches Cadhinor, the Adhivro, and the commonalty of paganism; but if (say) a priest is destined to serve Ishira, he'll preferentially study with a priest of Ishira. He'll learn the details of the cult rituals when he's an acolyte.

As for a hierarchy of the gods, there is one (the order is that given in pagan.htm). But this mostly determines things like seating at official banquets; there's no sense that (say) a priest of Eshi has intrinsic authority over a priest of Vlerë.

2. I forgot about the pigs... I'll have to modify the biology page. The icëlanî are a bit mysterious to me too... I'll probably have to approach them in a story sometime to picture how exactly they live. They're an attempt, however, to depict a species less developed than humans, as opposed to a fully human tribe which happens to have primitive technology. Or, looking at it the other way, you can think of them as a couple of steps beyond the chimpanzees.

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